An Interview With Christina Boyer November 2004

TC: Christina, first let me thank you for doing this interview. You are the focus of a book titled: “Unleashed Of Poltergeists and Murder. The Curious Story of Tina Resch.” Obviously, being in the field I am in, I inhaled this book as soon as I got my hands on it. The book fascinated me for a number of reasons. Right off the bat, it was about the phenomenon known as the “poltergeist.” For those who do not know what that is, I will briefly explain it. The word comes from the German meaning “noisy ghost.” What happens in poltergeist cases is objects fly around seemingly of their own accord. There are two different theories about the cause of that phenomenon and those who have read my work over the years have been exposed to both. The first theory is that the movement of objects is caused by a spirit of some sort. What type of spirit has been speculated on for many years. The other theory is that it is a “mind over matter” situation, something known as “Recurrent Spontaneous Psychokinesis,” or RSPK for short. The poltergeist is probably the most studied anomaly in parapsychology and still the least understood. In my experiences over the last 30 years, I have come across cases where both causes could, I felt, be attributed. One of the most brilliant minds in this field, Dr. William Roll, worked on your case. He was sure it was RSPK. I certainly will not argue with him here. However, there is another side of this story and it is a much darker side. That has to do with the death of your daughter, Amber. Her case was ruled a homicide and you are currently serving a life sentence as a result of a plea bargain you accepted. The real killer of Amber is also in jail, serving a lesser sentence. Obviously, we will go into that in detail but let’s do this chronologically. Having said all that, my first question is when was the first time something paranormal took place?

CB: Pretty much all my life there have been odd things that have happened. Things misplaced, things being broken that I hadn’t touched but was blamed for. Even things as simple as knowing who was on the end of a ringing phone. But before the house became an “uproar,” none of these things were really focused on. It wasn’t until things were out of control that we began to look back through the years at all the coincidences and see them for what they were, which now seems like signs in a way.

TC: So this actually started before the period of time the book covers.

CB: Yes, actually it did.

TC: When things first started flying, how did you feel?

CB: I felt confused, scared. I was probably less so than the adults because I think when we grow up and we’re adults, we are conditioned to believe that things like this don’t happen- and when they it does, it might possibly destroy your belief system. Yet children are still accepting, still learning and though I was 14, I was caught in between these stages. I was still frightened. I was old enough and smart enough to understand the unlikelihood of what was happening around me.

TC: Did you know right away that whatever was causing it to happen, it was centered around you?

CB: Not right away, I didn’t. Others, (parents, etc) began to notice that I was always around, near, or home, except for once. And at first, I was blamed for doing this stuff myself on purpose; I began to take notice myself that it centered around me. 

TC: Did you blame yourself for the events?

CB: I didn’t want to believe it, really. It was causing so much tension in an already bad situation that it was the last thing I needed. But as I began to notice that I appeared to be at the center of all this chaos, yes, I did blame myself.

TC: That has to have been very difficult for you. I guess it is safe to say that your foster parents were less than thrilled. Did they blame you right away?

CB: As I said, it just made a difficult environment even worse. No, my adoptive parents were less than thrilled. I am sure this wasn’t what they were expecting when they took me in as a child. They did blame me but not right away. It was more a process of elimination. Electrical problems, pranksters, sunspots, etc. Once they noticed I was at this storm's center, they knew who they could focus their blame on.

TC: You must have felt very, very isolated. How did you cope with it?

CB: Yes, I felt isolated but I already did. I already felt like an outsider, I already knew I didn’t belong so this only deepened my isolation from this family. It really gave them the ultimate reason to treat me like that. I reacted and coped in several different ways. The more pressure my parents put on me, the more I verbally lashed out. This is really about the time that everything came to a head. It was almost as if none of us held anything back. But I also stopped talking about what was going on inside me. I figured out by that point that they weren’t listening.  

TC: Did you have any control over the force, as it was called?

CB: I didn’t have any control over the force.

TC: I understand from the book that you often felt ill around the time when things would go flying. Was it always the same pains and in the same places?

CB: Yes, I would be sick to my stomach, cramp like pains and also at the base of my skull, there was a pain, a headache. It was always the same pains and in the same places but these symptoms weren’t always present during the events, but also, the symptoms did not clearly mean events would follow 100% of the time. It was a more often than not thing.

TC: I have to ask this question. There were times where you actually faked some of the movements, most notably the infamous lamp incident. Why did you do that? Was it for attention or to get the press off your back?

CB: I have been asked several times through the years about the infamous lamp incident. I did that mainly for one reason: I wanted to be left alone and the media wasn’t leaving and my mother wasn’t going to make them. My requests to eat or leave were denied. All that mattered was that something, anything happened. My mother wanted activity as much as the media. This wasn’t something that was controlled like an on or off switch and there was no way for me to MAKE something happen. After hours and hours of pressure from the media and family, - I knocked the lamp over and it worked. The media left, I went to eat and then got to leave the house on an overnight visit. So, it was to get everyone off my back. But obviously, it was not a good idea.    

TC: I can understand that. Had it been me, I probably would have thrown the lamp at them. The media crush must have been horrible.

CB: The media were unbelievable! They seemed ruthless to me. They wanted what they came for-period and seemed as though they had no intention of leaving until they were satisfied. 

TC: That turned out to be a complete and total disruption to your life. How did your foster parents deal with the press?

CB: My adoptive parents dealt with the press in two different ways. My father was quiet and withdrawn and became even more so once the media invaded us. If you knew him, you could tell by looking at him that he was boiling and just barely able to control his temper. My mother was the forefront, the hostess. The media and attention were not new to her and she put up a good front. Even by evening when she wanted them to go- it was me she put the pressure on-but kept up that public face for everyone else.

TC: You were home schooled for a while. How did you feel about that and did it affect the PK events?

CB: Being home schooled was a double- edged sword for me. In a positive light, it took me out of hellish school experiences. I was so medicated, I was falling behind in lessons. When I was taken out of school, the first thing my home schoolteacher did was to convince my parents to take me off the Ritalin. Immediately, I started to come up in grades. My parents had been convinced that I couldn’t learn, that I was slow. I wasn’t slow; I needed to be off the medication. I was taken out in the middle of 6^th grade. I was at about a 3^rd or 4^th grade level. I was home schooled and reentered the school system caught up, which means half of 6^th, 7^th and 8^th. I caught up 4^th and 5^th too. I reentered the system for the 9^th grade of high school but because of the PK stuff and the media hounding me at school, no one was accepting of that. I dropped out not even halfway through the 9^th grade. A few years later, I took a G.E.D. test and I passed the 1^st time around. I then entered Business College. But my point is being home schooled was good in a way. My teacher wouldn’t hold me back. She allowed me to go as fast as I could learn and came to find out when I was off the medication, I wasn’t slow or lazy or unwilling. It was actually quite the opposite. I have always said if I were a millionaire, I would spend the rest of my life in college to learn one thing after another. I read a lot here in prison. I like to learn. My only subject I don’t care for is mathematics. (Authors note: me too!) When we were able to take college courses in prison back in 95-96, I took psychology and environmental biology. They discontinued bringing college courses to the prison and now you can only take courses through correspondence, which I cannot pay for. Home schooling was not the panacea though either. There was a penalty to be paid for being allowed to come off the medication; for being allowed to learn as fast as I wanted. And it was a high penalty; my home now became my prison. I was then stuck with the Resch’s twenty-four/seven. My adoptive mother, Joan decided to go to work and my father retired. So they switched places like during my second year of home schooling. This became HELL. My only outlet, freedom if you will, was church and girl scouts. And as one of my punishments, I was restricted from going to either one. Eventually, I began to hide my disappointment and it ceased to become so great a punishment. Like my husbands, the joy for them was my tears, my hurt, my pain. I learned to hide the pain, and save my tears for privacy. I guess in a way I thought I would still have some pride. But there was a price for that too in that my refusal to cry, if I was hit would enrage my husbands and my father and could possibly prolong what I had to endure. It may not have made any sense but we must remember, Tom, I may have looked grown but I was still a child to some degree. Twelve is not grown.       

TC: At the very least, it added to your isolation.

CB: Yes, at the very least, it solidified my isolation.

TC: What effects did this have on the PK events?

CB: The effects it had on the PK? Well, the tension in the household was terrible. The strength of the PK events, I think, revealed those levels. But the PK erupting to such a magnitude only heaped on the stress and made what was once terrible tension now unbearable.

(Authors note: the strength of the PK events in Tina’s case was unusually strong. Ordinarily, small objects move. In Tina’s case, large furniture moved.)

TC: On a few occasions, flying objects actually struck you. Was that some form of self-punishment on your part or just random acts?

CB: At the time, I don’t think I really understood or recognized that it was actually a form of self-punishment or self-hate. I was young but as I grew older and began to learn more about PK and some of the reasons for it, I began to understand that it was indeed just another form of self-mutilation, if you will, self-punishment. At the time of the initial explosion, I thought them to be random acts. It didn’t take long to see a pattern but once that was realized on my part, then the self- examining began.  

TC: I can only imagine the horror you felt when your closest friend, Tina Scott was killed. How did that affect the PK events?

CB: Tina’s death, two years prior to the PK explosion was just more added stress and sadness. By the time the PK exploded, the tension level within was like a bomb going off. 

TC: You said that you saw Tina Scott on a number of occasions after her death. What was that like?

CB: For me, it was comforting. There is some question as to if she was really there or if my mind, my imagination summoned her likeness to me. Whether her spirit was really there or just my mind playing tricks really wasn’t the issue for me. For me, I found comfort, I had someone who cared, who offered advice, love.

TC: Do you ever see her now?

CB: No, I do not but I have to say that there are times when I know I’m not completely alone. I sense something around me but I don’t know who or what it might be.

TC: A short time after things started, the world- renowned parapsychologist, Dr. William Roll entered the picture. What was he like?

CB: Dr. Roll was funny with a delightful sense of humor. He provided some of the very things I needed. He cared. He cared about what was going on, about what I had been going through, what was going on inside of me as well as around me.

TC: Did you feel comfortable with him?

CB: Yes, I was comfortable with him, in fact, enough to leave home headed to North Carolina with him.

TC: What was it like working with Kelly Powers?

CB: Kelly Powers was also attentive. He was smart also. I believed I developed a crush on him but I am not sure if it was that I was attracted to him personally or to the kindness he showed. That was pretty much foreign to me where men were concerned.

TC: There were two instances where religious rituals were used to try to stop the force. One was Christian; the other, Mormon.  First of all, did you feel that something was either possessing you or was trying to possess you?

CB: No, I did not think or feel as though I was possessed or that something was trying to possess me. I was afraid because people around me thought that may be so.

TC: Did you ever feel anything in the house that might have been attributed to some form of outside force? It might have been things like feeling watched or that you were not alone?

CB: Aside from Tina, and I didn’t think she was causing things, I didn’t know. It really wasn’t until Dr. Roll came that I began to understand what was happening. To begin with, I guess I believed it must be ghosts. After all, I did see the movie “Poltergeist.”

TC: That’s cute. How did you feel when those rituals were done?

CB: Stupid! When the pastor from my church came, I had hopes that whatever he would do would stop what was going on. But those hopes were crushed once he was finishing blessing the house. Then, the couch scooted out to meet him. As for the Mormons, I felt stupid and scared. They were so sure I was possessed that, truth be told, I was frightened to a degree. But sitting there with other peoples hands on me. I felt violated in a way. I didn’t ask for this- my parents insisted on it. But then, after the first ritual was complete, and things still moved, during the second one. I was aggravated. I felt like here was another group of people who thought something was WRONG with me.     

TC: How did those events affect the PK?

CB: It did not help matters any. The more frustrated and aggravated I became, the worse the PK got.

TC: At any time, did your dog ever react strangely to you?

CB: After the PK became full force, there may have been another incident, although I don’t recall it right off. My dog, Pete, wouldn’t come to me, did not want me near him and acted almost frightened by me. That hurt, hurt a lot. My dog once raised his hackles in my presence. And I could have sworn that his eyes turned pink or red. But anyway, John, my adoptive father, had me behind the couch where I was trapped and was intent on thrashing me. Pete jumped up on the couch and put himself between John and I. I didn’t get the beating that time. So for Pete to not want to be near me was like the ultimate rejection and it hurt worse than knowing I was unloved by this family.   

TC: I read in the book where I believe two people saw what was described as moving shadows in the house. Did you ever see them?

CB: My adoptive mother, Joan, and Craig (Joan’s middle son) both saw shadows at separate times. I didn’t though. With all that was going on, my focus was a million places at once.

TC: Did Dr. Roll have any theories on the shadows?

CB: I believe Dr. Roll did have theories about that, however, I cannot recall accurately what they were.

TC: Okay, so Dr. Roll took you to be tested and if nothing else, it got you out of the house. That must have been welcomed. Were you nervous?

CB: I was somewhat nervous. I had never flown on a plane before so that was a new experience for me. I found that I liked it, though. I didn’t know really what awaited me. I worried I might destroy his house too. I worried that the PK might stop and I couldn’t please Dr. Roll. He took me from a hellish household, though at the time, he was not aware of just how bad things had been. For instance, he did not know at the time that Jack, ten years older than me and also adopted, had been molesting me from the age of twelve. But I was not afraid of Dr. Roll and leaving with him was definitely welcomed.      

TC: When you went with Dr. Roll to Chapel Hill and the testing began, did you feel like a lab rat?

CB: Yes, I did to a degree. But also, these were new experiences and I was learning so much that I found it very educational and interesting. I was like a sponge soaking up all the knowledge that they presented as well as positive attention. They spoke with and to me – not at me. My opinions and thoughts were important to them.

TC: So in many ways, the trip was a positive since it took you away from a very bad and deteriorating situation.  Was the testing itself difficult?

CB: The testing was not difficult. Some seemed like child’s play. Others were frustrating because I wanted to produce results on command and it doesn’t work that way for me, much to many peoples disappointment but they were good lessons in patience.

TC: When you were there, Dr. Roll set up a video recorder and that upset you. Why?

CB: Actually, for a couple of reasons that seems very juvenile to me. But to begin with, I took it as a slam to my honesty. Because of the prior incident with the news film crew, I felt like maybe he just didn’t trust me and that hurt because I definitely wanted his approval. So, when it was decided that I would have someone with me always to document that I didn’t physically manipulate anything; that seemed to be a happy medium. The other reason was because I desperately wanted the PK to take place. I knew that would please Bill and I so needed that positive attention. I wanted to ensure he got what he was being so nice to me to obtain. It didn’t take that long though to realize that Bill truly cared about me as a person and not a subject. And to this very day, we’ve remained very close and I consider him, Jeannie and Mike my family. It’s the closest I’ll probably ever get to a family and I am thankful for their presence in my life. 

TC: It always seemed that events took place when there were no cameras around. Did the fear of being filmed threaten you in some way?

CB: As I stated above, I felt it threatened or rather meant I wasn’t honest and that not only hurt but offended me. In many ways, I was still a child and though my thoughts or actions were inappropriate, still, that’s how I felt.

TC: Going back a little, the photographer, Fred Shannon, only got his picture when he looked away and shot blind. Were you controlling the force in some way?

CB: Not consciously, no. But I didn’t feel odd around Fred; he was such a nice, caring man. And also, he kept up steady chatter to distract me from the camera in his hands.

TC: There were times where target objects moved. Did you know what objects were being targeted?

CB: I knew and in fact, picked out many of the target items, many but not all, so I knew which were the target items but not which particular one among them that would shoot off somewhere. 

TC: If you did not know all of the target objects, how can you say PK was the cause? It almost sounds like an external source was involved?

CB: I really don’t know but at this point, NOTHING would surprise me.

TC: I guess it is possible that you picked up the information via telepathy. Okay, the book jumps from when you were 15 until you were 21. Were there PK episodes during that time and were they as notable?

CB: Yes, there were PK events but it wasn’t all so explosive, meaning things did not always shoot so fast. Sometimes, things would be much subtler. For instance, I may go to fix dinner and find that not only spoons were melted and or misshapen but EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF SILVERWARE was unusable. Frying pans, woks would be found folded in half. So it was still really destructive but not so violently so. Other times, I may find all the glasses and cups upside down in the cupboards or things wouldn’t be in their place. And with things like that, most people would believe I had just misplaced something. But that’s only if you didn’t know me. Growing up in the household I did has helped make me very compulsive. Even to this day, all the bottles in my locker sit just so, turned just so with large on down with labels facing front. Everything has its place and without thinking, if it is moved, I know it. So things being in the wrong place would drive me up the wall!

TC: That’s compulsive. Were you the same way when you were married?

CB: Years later, while married, my husband would tilt pictures ever so slightly and I’d walk into the room and know stuff was out of place. He thought this was great amusement. But this is also the man who would lock me in closets, take all of the calendars out of the house and after awhile, I’d lose track of days and he would bring home papers days old, that continued to make me disoriented. He would burn me with cigarettes. I still have the scars. Later, after I was away from him but he was still chasing me, keeping me terrified, other things began to happen. When I mean terrified, I mean that in every sense of the word. I’ve walked out of a convenience store, eight months pregnant and there he is, puts a gun to my stomach, tells me to get in the f…ing car. What do you do? You get in the damn car and just wait for a chance to get away.         

TC: That is both unreal and infuriating. Now, him, I would love to meet some time. What else did he do to you?

CB: I would wake up to find that he’d broken into my house and he was just standing over me while I slept. So yes, I was scared. Anyway, around that time, (and Amber had been born by this time) fires started erupting in the house. At one point, I got in touch with Bill and Jeannie because I figured they would know how to shut off everything that was happening, or at least bring it to a manageable level. After all, when your child’s crib catches on fire with her in it, for no reason, things are no longer manageable.

TC: I’ll say. Okay Christina, now we are coming to the part of this interview that I know is going to be very difficult for you because I am going to ask you to relive some very bad times and ultimately, the worst moment of your life. There is no easy way to do this but I feel it is necessary so that the readers understand exactly what happened. Only then can we ask our readers for help. I know the story and I am sure that when we are finished here, others will want to help too. After you returned home, the pressures of living with your foster parents obviously became too much for you to bear, so just prior to your sixteenth birthday, you attempted suicide. Was that something you gave a lot of thought to or was it a spur of the moment decision?

CB: Something I gave a lot of thought to or spur of the moment? Tom, really, I’ve spent my entire life wishing life would be over. I so believed I’d go straight to Heaven that by the age of ten, I would go to bed at night and my nightly prayers consisted of pleas for God to let me come live with him. So, to be honest, suicide was a serious consideration all of my life.

TC: That, Tina, is heartbreaking to hear. Now, being in prison…

CB: Even to this day, I have to work at not letting this whole existence overwhelm me and somehow find the hope each day that things might get better.

TC: You did try to commit suicide?

CB: As for the suicide attempt near my sixteenth birthday, I just felt overloaded. My parents were demanding me home and I just did not think I had the strength to keep going. So, my next thought was: ”I can’t go any further, I don’t even want to try so now it’s over.” And, I was at total piece with it. I wasn’t scared. My ONLY concern was if God would be disappointed in me. But I figured He knew what all had been going on and if I was ever to find mercy, I would get it from Him.

TC: Assuming that the PK events were the result of a buildup of pressure, and there is a good deal of evidence to support that assertion, do you think that as the PK events lessened, the pressure built up with no relief valve, so to speak and led to the suicide attempts?

CB: I really haven’t got a proper answer to that, Tom. I’d say that probably contributed to the first suicide attempt. However, as I said earlier, in a sense, I have been ready to die my entire life.

TC: It has to have been very difficult for you. I want to take the time to explain something here because I think it is very important to paint a picture here. Some people will ask what all of the pressure was about. I have had people ask me that and I am sure you have heard that too. You had a rough start to begin with. Finding out that you had been abandoned as an infant has to destroy or at least severely injure your self-esteem. Being raised by foster parents can be tough all by itself but by the luck of the draw, you were put in a household that believed in what was then called corporal punishment. Today we call it child abuse. The beatings had to add to you lack of self worth. Yes, there are many women out there who experienced the same thing. However, we then come to the PK events. This is the hard part to understand and I hope I explain it right. As my readers know, I grew up in a haunted house. Whether we are talking ghosts or RSPK and we can never be absolutely sure which category your situation falls in, an argument can be made for either one, the fact remains that you found yourself living in a world that made no sense. Objects do not just fly around on their own. It just does not happen in our scientific world. It defies the known laws of physics, therefore it cannot be real, or so the scientists would say. There is just one problem with that line of reasoning; it is wrong. In your house, objects did indeed fly around and there were many witnesses to that. Now, not only were you living in a world that did not seem real, a world where reality is at the very least, suspended, you had three added burdens. One, you had to worry about the health of those you loved.  Two, you had to worry about your own health. Three, you are being blamed for causing the problems as if you had some conscious control over them. I have yet to meet a PK agent who did. Okay, let’s take a breath here. I want the readers to imagine what it is like to live with that pressure. I want them to imagine what it is like to live in a house where objects fly around on their own. For those of you out there who have experienced a haunting of their own, this is easy. For those who haven’t, it will be harder. But please, play along with me on this. Imagine sitting down at breakfast and suddenly your plate flies off the table. Think of the fear you would feel. Now imagine watching objects you view as precious flying into a wall and being destroyed. Imagine being blamed for this.

Now, think about what it is like to be a target for the flying objects. How would it feel to know that at any second, something might fly around and strike you in the head? You just never know when something will injure you, maybe blind you. You have no control over these objects. You have no defense against them. What does living like that do to you? How does it affect your mental status? Keep in mind that you have no idea what the source of the flying objects is. Is it a ghost? Worse yet, a demon? Does it want to hurt or even kill you? Perhaps it is a demon intent on possessing you? What does a fourteen year old know about such things? You had a Christian minister bless the house to protect the family. You went through a Mormon exorcism. What does that make you think? Most likely, you think you are evil.

Imagine going to bed at night not knowing what force is controlling the activity. Think of the fear you would feel when you turned off the lights, if you dared. Now imagine people calling you a witch or a freak on top of it all. Dear God, how are you supposed to deal with that? You have all the normal pressures any teenager feels but on top of that, you have the abusive foster parents, low self esteem and your house is turned into a battleground with something unseen. How do you fight what you can’t see? This is what Christina had to deal with. However, it gets worse, much worse, if that is imaginable.

Add to all of the above a media frenzy. You are a young girl living in the Twilight Zone and suddenly you have people who want an interview. You find your house full of strangers every day. Not only are they there, they want you to perform like a circus act. “Come on, Tina, make something happen. You can make things fly.” After a few days of that, I would be trying to move objects with extremely fast velocity, aiming directly for the journalists. “You want a show? You want to see some flying objects? Duck!” Yet this was Tina’s life. As if it needs it, it gets spicier. After enduring all of the above, a kind and brilliant man comes into your home to witness and record the phenomena. Perhaps he is the only voice of reason. Add to that mix the amazing Randi, a man who has made a career out of closed mindedness, and acts as if he is something special, a world-renowned expert on all things fraudulently paranormal. Then this young girl leaves her home to be tested in an attempt to find out what is going on. That may have been the only break she had. It was an escape from the pressures at home but it added a different type of pressure. So now I ask you, how could this young girl make good choices in the future? Please keep this in mind as Christina answers my questions.

TC: Okay, we talked about the physical abuse. However, physical abuse is not isolated. There are other forms of abuse also.

CB: Yes, there was the verbal and emotional abuse. I can remember thinking I would much rather just get the crap beat out of me than to listen to Joan’s mouth. I listened to how I was: “Good for nothing” etc. But along with those other things- being imprisoned in my home to the extent of being locked in my room, like the prison cell I would one day occupy, there was sexual abuse. Not only dealing with the actual sexual encounters themselves was hard but to find no one cared enough, no one thought me worthy enough to stop, even AFTER they were told? That second part I think in some ways were more damaging to me than the molestations. It wasn’t until years later that my mother Joan had to openly admit it happened when she walked up behind my brother who she heard apologizing if he was “inappropriate” with me. She said she knew then it was true. But the thing is, it was over by then. I had been married, had Amber, etc. Her belief no longer mattered-it could no longer help or heal. Then we come to the PK and that adds TNT to the whole situation: PK and Abuse.

(Authors note: I want to let Tina speak her mind free of questions. The Q&A format is fine but it has its limitations. It is hard to display emotion with that format and the one thing you are not seeing is the terrible emotion this woman is suffering through.)

CB: PK and Abuse: One of the ways it affected me was to make me more jumpy. Now, years later, still, I jump at loud noises, even doors slamming and someone near me making a sudden move. Often times, during a conversation, I have to consciously stop myself from backing away from someone who talks with their hands. I am easily startled to the point of anxiety attacks. Sometimes during a conversation, I may get distracted because I’m watching for their movements. Their hands, body movements in general. Though the abuse is over, still, I am always looking for the next blow.          

TC: After all the testing was done with Dr. Roll, you pretty much lost touch with him for a few years. The personal struggles in your life continued, especially with your foster parents. It reached a point where they wanted to place you in detention center until another foster family agreed to accept you. Here you are, after all you have been through and you discover that you are no longer wanted. That has to have hurt you terribly. You already had self-esteem issues, you already suffered from eating disorders and now you find that no one wants you. My question is did the PK events flare up during those times?

CB:  Yes, but as I said earlier, in different ways.

TC: Your life degenerated to the point where at 16, you got married to escape the detention center. Obviously, the marriage was for all the wrong reasons and consequently, it proved to be a disaster. Looking at it, there was no other possible outcome. It was the first in a series of bad decisions you would make. According to the book, after your marriage, your husband beat you. So you go from a situation where your foster father beat you to where your husband beat you. What went through your mind at that point?

CB: That this was just how life is, that there must be something wrong with me. That is the reason I’m beaten. Maybe they see a valid reason I don’t? Maybe I really am all anyone ever said I was.

TC: Did you ever consider suicide?

CB: Yes, more than once.

TC: Your self-esteem had to have been shot. It must have brought back a lot of past hurts.

CB: Yes, it did. It drove home every negative remark my parents or anyone ever said, for instance: “I wasn’t worth the paper my birth certificate was written on.”

TC: That, Tina, is ridiculous. It is seriously flawed thinking but not surprising considering everything that has happened to you. Now at this point, you did not have Dr. Roll or anyone else to support you. Basically, you were on your own. How did you get through that?

CB: I pulled inwards a lot and learned that sometimes living day-to-day is too much. Sometimes all you can handle is minute to minute and you focus on that. I always knew my ex-husband would kill me, so I really lived for that- waited for him to finish what I myself was too incompetent to successfully complete myself.

TC: How did you feel when you found out you were pregnant?

CB: Scared! At first, I did not feel pregnant. I was in a state of shock. But then, within a few hours, though I was still shocked, I was excited.

TC: You chose to have the baby rather than have an abortion. Did you feel confident about having a baby?

CB: I was scared because I had no clue what I would do, but for me, there was never a question if I would keep her. Abortion was never a thought. Though I believe women have the right to do with their bodies as they see fit- for me, I believe it is wrong for me.

TC: How did Joan feel about you having a baby?

CB: Joan pushed adoption, to which I immediately pushed back. She didn’t travel that road again, so to speak but she did change it. She tried to talk me into letting one of my brothers and his wife adopt and raise Amber. They even cited every reason why I should do so. But I held on, determined to keep Amber NO MATTER WHAT. Maybe I wouldn’t be able to give her all the luxuries I grew up with, but at least she would never doubt she was loved. I didn’t have a clue to begin with about what I was going to do but that was my starting point.

TC: Do you suffer from the “what ifs?”

CB: There have been times since Amber’s death that I thought: “Would Amber be alive today if I had given her up? If I hadn’t been so selfish, if I would have given her up, would she be alive? That adds to the guilt. I have a LOT of guilt that stems from that. It’s just that I loved Amber; I needed her. She is what kept me alive, you see. SHE BECAME MY ONLY REASON TO LIVE. I found out I was pregnant because I had been so depressed I had quit eating. After days of not eating, I was so sick, so weak I could no longer even keep water down. A friend who thought I would die drove me to the E.R., where during the course of everything else, I found out that I was pregnant. THAT changed everything. She was my reason to live. God, how selfish I feel because maybe if I had given her up, she would be alive today.     

TC: I wish there were things I could say that would help you but this beautiful language of ours often finds itself wanting. Maybe it is us who have that shortfall. It has to have frightened you to a point, especially after all you had been through. Were you ever concerned that the PK experiences you suffered through might have happened to your baby too?

CB: Of course I figured it might be a likely possibility but I wasn’t frightened. If anything, I knew that unlike my adoptive parents, I would understand. Had I given her up, would her adoptive family have understood, or would she have been subjected to the hell I lived through? I always wondered if my birth family, mother, also experienced PK. Did she give me up for that reason? Did she think I’d be normal? Who knows the answers to any of those questions? I figured my baby would most likely be just like me.

(Authors note: I too would like to know if her biological family possessed any of the PK ability.)

TC: Okay, so after all of the suffering in your life, something positive finally happened- the birth of Amber. How did that make you feel? You have pretty much answered that but I am wondering how you viewed the possibility that something positive was taking place.

CB: Amber was mine! She would love me. I could pour all my love into her. I finally had a real family.

TC: Did you think that maybe, finally, you had a chance of leading a normal life? I guess what I am asking is did the birth of Amber seem like a turning point in your life?

CB: Yes, it did.

TC: Before we go any further, I want to talk a little about the abuse. Tales of abuse are common today and I believe that we as a country have become almost desensitized concerning it. You always hear things like, “I lived in an abusive relationship,” or “yeah, I was abused in my marriage,” and stuff like that. I think many people just kind of gloss over it. The abuse you were subjected to was shocking. Hoping to make a better life for yourself and Amber, you chose to marry Larry Boyer. Once again, it would prove disastrous for you because Larry Boyer also beat you?

CB: Yes, Larry also beat me. But let me take a few minutes here if I can. Larry and I were engaged to be married in the summer. But right after Christmas, Amber got the flu and I ended up taking time off work to stay with her. Then I got sick; I ended up losing my job. Then came rent, bills, etc. And I let Larry talk me into moving up the marriage. We were married in February and Amber and I fled Ohio on September 1^st to Georgia. I wanted to be clear here that I wanted to marry Larry. I just wanted to wait longer. But situations arose beyond my control and moving the date up seemed to be the logical thing to do. My decision to marry wasn’t out of desperation, just the timing.

TC: As a result of the repeated beatings you suffered, you ended up needing numerous surgeries.

CB: Yes, I have had multiple surgeries on my back and legs and will have to have more. I also have multiple stitches and broken bones. 

TC: Then you had the things with the spontaneous fires. What did you do then?

CB: My instincts were what I believe any mother’s would be- grab the baby and run like hell, which is exactly what I did. I ran clear down the street. I am deathly afraid of fire.

TC: I don’t know. I cannot imagine what that was like. So after talking to Dr. Roll, you decided to move to Georgia to be near Dr. Roll and Jeannie and Mike. How did you manage to stay sane? As hard as your life had been, it turned out that you were only warming up; the worst was yet to come.

CB: I really don’t know, Tom. I’ve spent my whole life “making it through” the current situation and hope I’ve got nothing worse coming. (Which turned out to be much, much worse.) In times like that, I concentrate on making it through THAT day. And if that hurts too much, then that hour, that minute, if need be.

TC: Here is where this is going to get very difficult and I apologize but it is necessary if people are to understand. You met a man named David Herrin. I understand that people felt you were lucky to have met him. However, he turned out to be a monster. What happened on April 14, 1992? I want you to tell your story with as few interruptions from me as possible. Stop if you need to, okay?

CB: On April 14^th, 1992, I went to Jeannie’s. I drove David’s car to work. It was right before Easter and I desperately needed the money. Amber had a beautiful Easter dress my mother had sent and I was working on getting a purse, shoes, a bonnet, socks, gloves and an Easter basket for both Amber and Ashley. (David’s daughter.) That Sunday was to be the first time I met David’s parents. David didn’t attend church with his parents but I talked him into us taking the girls for Easter services and egg hunts. Amber had had a cold and though she was on the mend, she still had sniffles. I could have taken her with me that day; Jeannie would have watched her while I worked. But she’d had a cold and when I mentioned going to Jeannie’s, she was in the process of climbing in David’s lap with an arm full of story- books to be read to her. She wasn’t afraid or timid. She said: “he reading me mommy.” In that split second, I decided to let her stay. If I drug her out, she’d just be ornery and I’d get more work done otherwise. So I kissed her forehead then and walked to the door. My last glimpse of her alive is her in David’s lap telling him how to read it right. I went to Jeannie’s. I stayed late to see someone who was coming. I think it was about vitamins-I’ll have to ask Jeannie.

When I left, I drove to David’s stopping only at a mini- Mom and Pop store for cigarettes. When I pulled in the drive, I opened the door and was gathering my paperwork I kept in files. I was singing to myself, trying to juggle everything. I glanced up and saw David had come out on the porch and was just standing there looking at me. I smiled and hollered what was he doing. (Something like that.) He just stared at me. So, I stuck my head out a little and said: “What?” He said something. I said, “What?” and he said he couldn’t get Amber up. Initially, I assumed he meant he’d let Amber sleep way past naptime. My response was: “What do you mean? She’s still asleep? She will never sleep tonight.” It was like 6:00 or 6:30. He said’ “No, I mean I can’t wake her up. I threw the files down in the car and got out going faster and faster towards the house yelling: “What do you mean won’t wake up?” I ran in the house, ran to her room and she was lying there under the covers. I tried to wake her. I snatched the covers down, put my head to her chest, heard and felt nothing. I scooped her up and ran for the car screaming, “She’s not breathing, drive!” He was saying something about she must have JUST stopped breathing. Which the autopsy would later prove was a lie. I began C.P.R. with her in my lap but it was such a hard position. I was breathing in her mouth and I remember there was this horrible smell that kept making me gag. I was screaming. “What happened to her? Why does she look like that? Oh, Jesus, I can’t get her to breathe.” He wasn’t driving fast enough. I kept telling him to drive faster, go around cars, go faster. “Call Jeannie, she would know what to do, what’s wrong.” He made a minute phone call. We got to the hospital and I jumped out of the car as it was stopping. I ran into the E.R. screaming: “I have a baby, she’s not breathing. She has no pulse. Someone help me!” Someone took her and then took me in some room. David came in and I kept asking him what had happened. No answer.         

Jeannie shows up and we go out. I’m pacing; I’m smoking. David leaned on the wall. They came to tell me they got Amber’s heart beating but she wasn’t breathing on her own. David has his hands covering his face- he mumbles over and over: “I’m sorry!” but doesn’t answer my question- for what? They call us in and the doctor comes in and said her heart stopped beating. He said they really did all they could but she’s dead. I went to see her and Jeannie goes with me. She’s got tubes and stuff coming from everywhere it seemed like. I wanted to hold her but they would not let me touch her or go near her. Jeannie took me out of the room. Then David gets slammed on the wall and they put handcuffs on him. They (police) asked if I would come and give a witness statement. In the space of a few hours, my world fell apart and my life was over. Amber is dead and I think if they just let me back there I can help her. I asked God to please take my life and not hers. She can’t really be dead. I can’t leave her here. What if she wakes up? She’ll be scared. She doesn’t know any of these people. But they kept asking me to come and talk. Jeannie says she is coming too. She said to just go talk and she’ll be waiting for me there too.  

TC: Amber was taken to the hospital and pronounced dead. I am not going to insult anyone by saying I know what that must have been like. It is light years beyond my ability to comprehend something like that. Obviously, you must have been devastated. I imagine you went into a state of shock. How did the police treat you in the beginning?

CB: In the beginning, the police asked me if I would come to the police station and make a witness statement. I vaguely remember Jeannie telling me she’d follow me. 

TC: Did you feel like you were a suspect right away or did they arrest you right away?

CB: They took me over to the station and let me sit in an office. They told me I WASN”T under arrest. They just wanted to ask me some questions to find out what I knew about what happened. It didn’t take long for their attitudes to change. They wanted me to say David had been beating me and I was scared of him but I wouldn’t because it wasn’t true. They became nasty with me when I couldn’t tell them what happened to Amber. But I couldn’t- I wasn’t home. At one point early on, they even asked me (and not in a polite way either) if I let David have anal sex with me.

TC: What was with the sex angle? It seemed all they wanted to talk to you and Herrin about was sodomy, something the autopsy showed never happened?

CB: When I denied it, they, the woman detective, Wren Culver, said she knew I let David f--- me up the a--- and she’ll take me to the hospital to prove it. I said, “Fine.” Then she asked if I ever did it and I said not willingly. I ended up admitting that my ex-husband had once raped me that way. Then she wanted all the details and a description of the damage. I got tired and tried to leave. They put their hands on my shoulders and sat me down. I told them I wanted to leave and they said just a few more questions. I asked: “Don’t I need a lawyer?” and they said no, I wasn’t under arrest; I wasn’t in trouble. Every time I said I wanted a lawyer, they said I didn’t need one. They questioned me for 11 ½ hours and then told me I was under arrest.  

TC: Were you read your Miranda rights before they questioned you?

CB: No, I wasn’t. 

TC: After your arrest, you were eventually assigned a public defender. I understand that he was related in some way to the District Attorney. Ultimately, Jimmy Berry was assigned to the case. How long did you go without seeing an attorney?

CB: I believe it was around 18 months.

TC: So it sounds to me like you were left hanging with no idea whether you would be freed, if ever?

CB: That’s correct. I had no idea what was going on or if I would ever leave that place. Of course, they kept taking me to the Mental Health Department to have my medications increased. So, I suppose it was to help me from fully knowing what was going on.

TC: How did you stay sane during this time? I mean, your baby had just been killed and you were being blamed for it. I don’t know how you could have held up under that.

CB: I wondered why God left me alive to go through it all.

TC: It is a wonder the PK did not flare up again.

CB: Yes, it is. Though, if everything had flared up again, I don’t think I was in any shape to have even noticed.

TC: I know that both you and Dr. Roll called and wrote to Mr. Berry. Is it true that he did not return your calls or answered your letters?

CB: I think I might have talked to him once. I’m not sure. But he visited only 2 times and never once answered any letter I wrote to him.

TC: So not only did you not have a part in your own defense, you did not even have a defense?

CB: Yes, that’s correct.

TC: The courts allowed this?

CB: Yes, the courts did. Apparently, you are not innocent until proven guilty. You are guilty until you can prove yourself innocent, if you have the help or the money, of which I had neither. So, the courts allow them to do what they want.

TC: Unreal. Your plea bargain was quite the misnomer. You are offered life plus 20 or death. Since Georgia does not execute women, what was Berry doing?

CB: I don’t have a clue what Berry was doing but whatever his intentions were, they were clearly not in my best interests. 

TC: It amazes me that the District Attorney, Skandalakis offered it and Berry and a Judge accepted it. It says something but I do not want to get into just what it says.

CB: Yes, it says a mouthful but at the very least, it says how insignificant my life was to them. 

TC: Dr. Roll had the polygraph done and it showed that you were innocent. Why did you accept the plea bargain? Did Berry really put the pressure on?

CB: Why did I take a plea? Oh, how I have asked myself that so many times throughout the years, and I don’t really have a straight answer for that. I know how I felt; I know what I believed, which turned out to be not true. So much went on in that short span. One minute, I thought I had a lawyer and the next, I find out I’m not getting a trial because my lawyer says I’m going to die, he can’t help me. My impression was this: Berry was basically telling me if I went to court, I’ll die. He led me to believe I’d go home soon. He put the pressure on and didn’t want me to talk to anyone. Nothing he said made sense to me. All I really understood was if I went to trial, my lawyer wouldn’t help me. I couldn’t defend myself so I’ll die.  

TC: So you are given life plus twenty. Now that you were taken care of, they chose to go easy on Herrin. He gets a straight twenty years. That has to infuriate you to no end.

CB: What infuriates me is that they let David get away with murdering my baby. Basically, it’s like what he did doesn’t matter. He got 20 years if he serves all of that and that’s not enough. And to the people who think it is, I ask you this: “Would you want him next door to you, or your children, grandchildren, nieces and nephews?” He WILL get out. That’s certain. The only question now is how many more children will die at his hands?

TC: So now you sit in jail for a crime you did not commit. How have you dealt with that over the years?

CB: I deal with it minute by minute. Also, I tell anyone who will listen how I came to be here. It’s the only way I feel I’m doing any good. What happened to me could happen to anyone and I want people to be as aware as possible. Then maybe these years in prison, maybe Amber’s death won’t be just for nothing.

TC: You were up for parole in 1999. Was there a hearing, and if so, did you have an attorney represent you?

CB: Yes, there was a hearing but I wasn’t allowed to be present. I had no attorney.

TC: Were you given a reason why you were denied parole?

CB: I was given the very same reason EVERY lifer gets. It’s a form letter that says: “Due to the nature and circumstances of your crime, your parole has been denied…” The only difference between mine and some other person’s with a life sentence is the name & GDC # (Georgia Department of Corrections) & date are different. Other than that, no reason is given.

TC: Your next hearing, I understand, is not until 2007. What can be done, if anything, to help you win your freedom?

CB: My next parole hearing is April 14, 2007. What I really need is for as many people world wide to know my situation and hopefully they’ll write to the parole board requesting my release. It is possible for them to release me before 2007. But if they don’t, they have to, by law, consider it in 2007.  

TC: Here is what frightens me. I have written to a number of people and in some cases, I received cordial, although not helpful replies. In others, it was like they were telling me “tough shit.”  You know, it was like they were saying that this is the way it is and we are not going to change and there is nothing you can do about it. Have you encountered the same thing?

CB: I have encountered the same. It is very discouraging and makes hanging onto hope difficult.

TC: Let’s be optimistic here. What are your plans when you do get out?

CB: My plan is to somehow build a life if it’s in the stars for me to have one.

TC: Well, Christina, I want to thank you for the interview and I want you to know that we will continue working to help you win that freedom. I will occasionally put updates on the site to let the readers know where things stand. I am hoping that some of them will try to help too by writing to the Board of Pardons and Paroles. It is high time the injustice ends.

CB: Thank you for your help and for helping me get my situation out there to the world. I appreciate any help at all.

(Authors note: In Georgia, the Board of Pardons and Paroles are answerable to no one, not the Governor, not the Supreme Court. Thus, what they say goes and there is no one to watch over them, to see if they are being fair. That is an insane amount of power for people who hold other’s lives in their hands. There are no watchdogs, no checks and balances. Tina was not able to attend her parole hearing. She was not allowed to have a lawyer present. How does one know there even was a parole hearing or that there will be one in 2007? Her hearing may have been nothing more then five people rubber-stamping her parole form and the same may be true in 2007. I am not saying that is what they did or do but the fact remains that there is no one to oversee them and that is a giant hole in the criminal justice system. No agency should have total, absolute power over people’s lives. That is not what America is all about. For all anyone one knows, they may have no intentions of ever letting her go and there is virtually nothing that can be done. Laws need to be changed and perhaps they will. However, it may be too late for Tina and many other wrongly imprisoned people. I hope Tina finds some mercy in this life. God knows she deserves it.)

If you would like to help Tina, please click on:

A Plea To My Readers  

© 2004 T. Cooney  

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